CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目
阅读:3130 2022-07-18
CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

近日,CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参与由BBC出品的《Business Matters》播客栏目,与Sam Fenwick一起探讨中国商业领域近20年的发展变迁,并以西单更新场为例,讨论疫情背景下,城市公共空间与商业空间的融合,以及生活方式转变如何影响场所营造趋势。

Recently, Xiaoguang Liu, Principal of CRTKL, was invited to participate in the BBC’s "Business Matters" podcast to discuss with Sam Fenwick the development and changes in China's commercial field over the past 20 years. Taking The New (Xidan Cultural Plaza Renovation) as an example, Xiaoguang discussed the integration of urban public and commercial spaces in the epidemic context, and how place-making has become a trend with people's changing lifestyles.

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36:28-42:32 Business Matters音频:00:0006:04

FENWICK 我们来探讨一下当前中国的商业购物领域。现如今,世界各地的设计师正试图重塑购物中心的用途,构想未来购物中心的样子。在疫情影响下,实体空间被迫长期停业,越来越多的人不得不选择线上购物,这使业界更加关注未来商业购物领域的发展方向。来自北京的建筑师同仁们在如何处理老旧的零售空间方面为我们提供了方向。CRTKL对北京市中心天安门广场附近的一座老旧购物中心进行了改造设计,我也曾与该项目的建筑师刘晓光谈论过这个地方的特别之处。

Let's move on and talk about shopping now in China because around the world designers are trying to reimagine what shopping malls are used for and what they should be looking like. The pandemic brought that into sharp focus when shops were closed for long periods of time and more of us were forced to shop online. Architects in Beijing are leading the way in what to do with redundant retail space. They've developed an old shopping center in the heart of the city very close to Tiananmen square. I've been speaking to the architect, Xiaoguang Liu about why this location is so special.

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

鸟瞰图 Aerial montage showing project in urban context

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

总平面图 Site Plan


LIU 我成长于这个城市,后来又在外学习工作。这里有我儿时的生活记忆,这附近有很多商场,母亲时常带我来这里。西单文化广场比较特别,它的位置和历史都很特殊。这次改造恰逢中国城市发展从大拆大建向城市更新转型。政府和我们的业主希望把它作为一个窗口,向世界展示北京一些最好的东西。

I grew up in the city and studied and worked abroad. To me, this place is strangely familiar. It’s one of the childhood places that my mom used to take me to. There are many shops and shopping centers here. This one is special because of its location and history. This latest redevelopment happens at a time when China shifted from fast and mega development to urban renewal. The government and the client expect the project to showcase what Beijing as a city has to offer.

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

改造前 - 项目基地状态演变的历史图片(部分图片来源于网络) Historical images showing evolution of the place and state prior to the renovation(some images come from the Internet)


FENWICK 所以,这是座有历史的购物中心,也曾经像世界各地的许多购物中心一样在逐渐衰败……

So it was a shopping center many years ago and it became run down as many shopping centers around the world have done.


LIU 是的,这座购物中心在城市广场地下,至今已有约20年历史,那时的建造标准和现在大不相同。

Exactly, it was a shopping center underneath an urban plaza, and was built some 20 years ago when the standards were very different.

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

改造前后的模型对比 Model view – The hidden destination is only fully visible from above (Before & After)


FENWICK 而且20年间商业购物领域已经发生了很大的变化。

And shopping has changed a lot in 20 years.


LIU 巨大的变化。

Greatly.


FENWICK 您是如何将改变带入新的购物中心的?因为相比20年前,零售空间的需求明显在减弱,而我猜想这个情况在中国与在美国、英国和欧洲是一样的?

How did you bring that into the new shopping center? Because we don't need as much retail space as we used to have 20 years ago. I'm assuming that's the same in China as is in the US and the UK and Europe.


LIU 是的,这既是中国的购物中心所面临的境况,也是一个普遍现象。中国、美国和其它地区的人们都在问,购物中心是不是已经死亡了。据我们观察,人们还是会光顾购物中心,但目的却与先前大不相同。他们去购物中心不再仅是为了购买商品,更可能是为了获得体验、提升自我和进行社交。特别值得我们关注的是我们称之为Z世代的年轻群体,他们的行为模式有明显的代际特征,更喜欢张扬个性和尝试分享新鲜事物。令人兴奋的是,城市设计里的场所营造一时间被赋予了新的意义,几乎也是一个被更新了的概念。

You're right. It happens in China, but I believe it is universal, right? One of the questions people brought up is actually not only in China, but in the States and elsewhere are the Malls dead. So to our observation and people still go to shopping malls, but for a whole different set of reasons, and they don't just go there to shop for goods or commodities, right? They go there for a special experience, personal betterment, and social interactions. And one particular group to watch is the young generation of what we call GEN Z and their behaviors are certainly very different than the current. This group like to go places. So to our excitement, placemaking in urban design, all of a sudden just got put on a new meaning, and almost reinvented itself.


FENWICK 那么它现在是什么样子的?相比20年前,它有何不同?

And so what does it look like now? Compared to 20 years ago.


LIU 这次改造是一次彻底重建,相当于一次再生。虽然仍然是地下商业空间和地面公共空间的组合,但所有的空间不再独立存在。以前封闭的地下空间现在可以直接接触到自然光和自然景观。城市公共空间和商业空间融为一体。

The place has been totally reconstructed, remade, and in a way reborn. It's still composed of underground retail space and public space above, but is no longer segregated. What used to be enclosed subterranean space now gets direct exposure to daylight and natural landscape. Public spaces or urban spaces are merged with commercial spaces.

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

改造前后的剖面图对比 Section (Before & After)

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

室内广场 - “苍穹下” Indoor Plaza View - “Under the Sky”

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

阳光引入空间深处 - “天光云影” Natural lights are brought into depth of space


FENWICK 这座购物中心于大约12个月前开业营运,那时我们处在疫情影响中,现在也还处于疫情管控状态。那么您如何知道这座购物中心是否受欢迎?现在人们可能不能像疫情发生前那样自由出入,想去哪里就去哪里。

The center opened 12 months ago that we were still in the kind of the height of the pandemic then, weren't we? I know that you're on lockdowns now at the moment as well. So how do you know whether this center is popular or not? Because maybe people can't get out to it as they would perhaps do when we aren't in lockdown.


LIU 这是一个很好和有意思的问题。疫情和它引发的各种困难事实上为我们提供了一个非常难得的机会和角度,来观察我们前面谈到的社会形态和生活方式的转变。我们看到的是,人们抓住疫情间隙的各种机会走出来,结伴前往公共开放空间。在某种意义上这恰恰证明了人们是多么喜欢和需要这种类型的空间。场所营造正以一种新的方式受到社会关注。

That's a good question and an interesting one. The pandemic and whatever problems and hardships it created actually give us a rare opportunity and angle to observe what we just talked about - social transformation and changes in lifestyle. What we see here is that people are taking opportunities, any opportunities between the lockdowns to get out and get out together to open spaces, which in a way proves how people value and appreciate these kinds of spaces. Placemaking has become a big deal, in a new way.

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

望向下沉广场 The NEW ground - Overlooking the sunken plaza

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

步入下沉广场 - “台上” On Stage – Steps leading to the sunken plaza


FENWICK 您说这个广场以及这座购物中心的改造重建向人们展示了一种新的方式。您认为它有中国之外的示范作用吗?从中可能收获什么?

You said that the redevelopment of this square and the shopping center shows that it could be done in a new way. Do you think it's also shown to people outside China? Also, what can be achieved?


LIU 希望如此,这也确实是我们的设计目标之一。这个项目仅仅具有中国特征是不够的。当地市民可能从未想到能够在北京的核心区域看到这样的设计,这是一个鼓舞人心的结果。我相信这样的设计也可以出现在其它地方。设计概念出自特定的中国文化,但采用了现代的设计语言,让它能够被更多人理解和欣赏。设计的这种双重性增添了项目的独特魅力。

I certainly hope so, and that's really one of the design objectives. Locals might never think something like this could happen in Beijing at such a close distance to the city center, which speaks volumes for the design. I could see such a project happen in other places. The story is in a Chinese context, and the storytelling is in a universal language that people could understand and appreciate. This kind of duality is built into the design, and I think makes the project unique and attractive.

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

下沉广场 - “云起时” Sunken Plaza view – “Rising Clouds”

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

近景 - “山与水” Close-up View – “Mountain and Water”

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

台地 - “画中游” Terrace View – “Into the Picture”

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

下沉广场夜景 - “潜入夜” Blending into the Night


FENWICK 我看过项目照片,它看起来确实非常震撼。中间高起来的区域和广场上如今已经树木葱郁。

I've seen the photographs. It really does look quite striking as well. The built-up area in the middle and the plaza are now covered in trees.

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

鸟瞰 - 城市森林 Aerial Perspective – An Urban Forest

CRTKL董事刘晓光受邀参加BBC出品的Business Matters播客栏目

四季变化 Seasonal Transformations - Sense and sensations of the place


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